!weapons when barr or hon down

[dubstar]

I don't think Vanilla ren will be a server filler nowadays, maybe organized events every few months or so but weekly I think most will go to other servers.

[Itai795]

On 10/7/2017 at 8:17 PM, Manuel857 said:

You both have some valid points here.. and I agree.

I think the !weaps should be doubled or even tripled when Hon/Bar dies. If WF/Air dies, the med/light cost x3 amount so It should be about the same x2 or x3 amount for all the !weapons when Hon/Bar dies.

So if PP dies: !weapons already cost x2.

If Hon/Bar dies: !weapons should cost x2 as well.

If PP is dead and Hon/Bar: !weapons should cost x3.

+1

[ehh]

25 minutes ago, dubstar said:

I don't think Vanilla ren will be a server filler nowadays, maybe organized events every few months or so but weekly I think most will go to other servers.

there is no other server

[Guest rackz]

37 minutes ago, ehh said:

people arent leaving because of the commands lol

people are leaving because its a dead old game, relax.

 

no

[Blacky]

I haven't looked at the code in a while but there should already be an option already to triple the cost when bar/hon and pp die. If there isnt I will add one. That code hasn't been changed in like 4 years.

I want Vanilla ice cream but most people don't like Vanilla.

I forget about the weapon commands all the time lol.

 

[shaitan]

Make sure it will take effect from the weapon prices in da_rc.ini [Purchasable_Weapons]. Will have to do different pricing if it's setup based off bar/hon. No way is a rail staying at 1500 if the hon dies, that means it's 4500, and when PP dies it's 9000. Negative.

[dubstar]

what you have done is triple then double < if that is correct then ignore this post

 

not 100% sure but I think mannys idea would make the following prices

no buildings destroyed (normal price for rail/pic) == 1500

if PP dies                     : !weapons cost x2         == 3000

If Hon/Bar dies            : !weapons cost x2          == 3000

If PP and Hon/Bar dies : !weapons cost x3          == 4500

[Vandal33]

I ran away from Renegade X because it's far from being original Renegade but wow, at least it doesn't have weapon buys and weapon pickups from the dead. Such a shame these modifications are turning this place into something like mpf.

[ehh]

these commands have always been here lol

Rencorner has always been playable, unlike MPF, that wont change

[Goztow]

I agree. Although I like vanilla renegade, I think rc is also very playable and I think we'd loose players if we took the weapons command completely away. I'm glad to read blacky is having a go at coding this feature. Playing on prize is probably the best solution overall. 

[SAP]

20 hours ago, bad2gurlz said:

I say don't make any new modifications, leave it as it is. Rackz is right people are leaving.

true. I think the way it is now is fine. don't fix what aint broke!

[ragnaroec]

iirc there was a vanilladay project ónce a week back in the days here. I don´t know what happened to it or if it worked or not. Or maybe someone just forgot to set up the server for this :D

different suggestion: All the players that are left have different histories playing Renegade and all of us had a favorite server.

Why not something like a memorial day once a week for the passed away servers with the last server settings they had.

"noobstories memorial day" , "jelly memorial day"  or something like that - maybe atomix if u want - doesn´t matter.

I also would rename the server for that day. Im curious what happens if the players out there read those names at the server list (renlist).

I'm sure raven would do that job with pleasure (OK - maybe) 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by ragnaroec

[shaitan]

raven will be doing something jelly-wise again. Idk if that means he'll boot up jelly server or what, either way we'll advertise it beforehand and shut off mara if it comes to that.

At people leaving: that happens every year due to people's schooling. That's nothing new...and ren is dying. We'll try the changes with weps...it's no different than when I make changes to gauge your guys' reactions.

[Guest rackz]

[ehh]

it is what it is, games gonna die at some point

its coming

[Guest rackz]

but renegade is no game, renegade is life

[creed3020]

What was the final agreed upon formula for costs? I couldn't figure out which one was the winner...

[Theboy]

Vanilla ren is fun, Im a huge fan of it myself and prefer it. However I think the player base likes the features as they are. People forget the vast majority of players are not posting on this forum at all, nor do they have a clue what happens here. They just join and get used to servers they prefer and stay there. 

The reality is, the server needs consistency to stay alive, changing rules needs to stop. The game is old enough taking away from what people can do is akin to removing !weapons, your getting rid of features people can use. 

Im one of those people that actually would prefer no rules and watch the frenzy unfold, thats why people liked Jelly, there really was a period of time you could do whatever you want except b2b. Its fun. Keep the fun in the game, not everyone is a balance nazi who cares about whats fair and balanced. I remember when you could hop ref for a while there, all that happened was everyone else learned to do it too and next thing you know ref hopping became too predictable. 

/end rant

[He4dSh0t]

26 minutes ago, Theboy said:

Vanilla ren is fun, Im a huge fan of it myself and prefer it. However I think the player base likes the features as they are. People forget the vast majority of players are not posting on this forum at all, nor do they have a clue what happens here. They just join and get used to servers they prefer and stay there. 

The reality is, the server needs consistency to stay alive, changing rules needs to stop. The game is old enough taking away from what people can do is akin to removing !weapons, your getting rid of features people can use. 

Im one of those people that actually would prefer no rules and watch the frenzy unfold, thats why people liked Jelly, there really was a period of time you could do whatever you want except b2b. Its fun. Keep the fun in the game, not everyone is a balance nazi who cares about whats fair and balanced. I remember when you could hop ref for a while there, all that happened was everyone else learned to do it too and next thing you know ref hopping became too predictable. 

/end rant

The thing though is i like balance when it comes to slowing down nod

i loved the old days of field when ioning nod ref was an effective way and b2b on islands was a way gdi got agressive quick
but yea the new changes will affect player count because most of them may hate it but wont come here to vote yes or no towards it look at polls in game in general over half ignore it

[Learonys]

Late response but here I am.

!weapons and !tank has been added to RC (i assume) because shai and many others know that some mechanics of vanilla Ren are flawed, in the environment of the 'public game'. While a bad team should lose to a coordinated or good team, losing a building has for the average pubbie always been too much of a penalty, and can happen very quickly/easily, because of how quickly or unnoticed some events can unfold (hotwire in your base, tank rush knocking on your front door).

To add some stability to these 'public games', and to add a new kind of gameplay to the game, maps with advanced base defences have been added to the stock game. Base defences that are able to see and shoot even stealthed units, when in range. This takes some of the responsiblity away from the player, which allows him to focus on other gameplay elements, like shooting up people and tanks! It's not everyone's cup of tea to circle your base with an APC, and check the minecount every other minute.  Things go bad however when these base defences take away too much of this responsiblity.

Base defences become too powerful when each building is very strategically placed, and when the size of the base increases. A perfect example would be Meadow, where almost always, the first building you'll see is the Obelisk/AGT, and the distance between you and the enemies' buildings is so great that you are going to get shot multiple times by the Obelisk/AGT before you'll get in shooting range of even one of them with a tank. And when there is only one building to shoot (realistically), there's only one building to pay attention to for the enemy team, if they are being rushed... Defending gets too easy, and you'll end up with boring stalemates. A map well done would be City, where the obelisk and AGT are very clearly placed in the middle, but all the way towards the big buildings with the tunnels. You can still shoot many buildings this way without getting zapped or tickled to death, but it definitely makes the task harder, as it should. Glacier on the other hand, while it is my favourite map of the game, I will admit that it is a bit too easy to circumvent the base defences. But that's frankly the only stock map where this is the case, and this map being infrequent, i think makes it tolerable for many.

 

Why am I talking about base defences now? Because !tank and !weapon are supposed to mitigate the consequences when you *do* lose a building, which are frankly too harsh, but their powerfulness are strongly dependant on the map itself. Take !weapon and !tank, and put them in a map where these commands are less important, like canyon or volcano (they are less important because both maps can still realistically be won without either tanks or advanced infantry, and sometimes even with free characters, because there are no base defences!): you end up with a feature that is designed to mitigate the consequences of losing a building, but on some maps only end up boosting the effectiveness of your unit when they are not necessary! This is the flaw that needs to be adressed to make these commands balanced again. Many of you guys already seem to know this, but I never really get to hear exactly why, and I think some people are misunderstanding the actual effect of these commands.

 

So how would you balance out such a feature, when its effects change per map? Well, most definitely not by raising the cost on its own, because all you have to end up doing is waiting for enough harvester dumps to get your valuable 4800 credit medium tank. When you lose the refinery however... But that's a different thing on its own, which !tank and !weapons are not designed for (or at least I think so). What I would like to see is a balancing factor where using these commands only become viable *after* you lose a building.

My proposals to balance !tank and !weapon (you can take whichever you like, not all need to be applied):

- Reduce the vehicle limit when WF/Air dies to a small amount, I would say 4 but it's entirely dependant on the amount of players in the game. This is more to give losing WF/Air at least some effect, because if you have the field in a marathon game, and some money, you have all the time in the world and you surely can wait 10 minutes to spam !tank once every minute, to build a very powerful tank rush).

- Make !weapon only purchaseable when Hon/Bar dies, and allow only for a single purchase per character (per death, off course not through the entire game). This way, when you spawn, you can still have your !srep on your engineer, but not a !ramjet aswell. Or, you can have a !rail on your grenadier, but not the !rep with it. To prevent your ally from purchasing an additional weapon (or suiciding with an engineer) for you, you could block backpack pickups for a minute after buying a weapon, and block usage of the !weapon command when you already are carrying an additional weapon. Off course this can all be circumvented, but you'd have to sit down in your base, doing nothing for a minute, while the enemy is pounding your allies in the field.

- Make the cost increase every time you buy from !tank and !weapon. The first !tank (light tank) purchase would be 1800, the next !tank purchase would be 2400, the third !tank purchase would cost 3000, etc. This cost increase could be per-player, or could be team-wide. If it's team wide, off course the cost increase should be lowered per purchase.

 

These changes will disencourage, or flatout block the spamming of !tank of !weapon when it is not necessary, because you may be screwing yourself over for when you lose a building.