!tank removal

[nameismud]

Lot of matches that have taken ages could have ended if !tank didn't exist. Want to see if others agree that this command should be removed, or temporarily taken off.

[InspectorGadget]

yeah i´m for removing it. i don´t hate it, but i think we would be better without, espescially more fair. if you don´t remove it maybe try making it 2x or 3x as expensive as it is now, i think it´s way too cheap. on a map with no base defenses i think you´re a favorite to win the game if you have only ref and the other side has lost ref but nothing else, at least if other ref died rather early. and i think that´s not how it should be.

[Tesla]

Drags out games worse than anything I've seen. Just prolongs with camping in base.

I've asked people in game to come here, would like to know majority of the players opinion on it.

[trunkskgb]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

Drags out games worse than anything I've seen. Just prolongs with camping in base.

I've asked people in game to come here, would like to know majority of the players opinion on it.

Marathon drags out games lol. I voted no.

[Forithow]

The only concern I'd have is if for example we are on a base defense map, like Deth_River, and both weapons factory and airstrip are destroyed early game and there are NO vehicles on either team because they get destroyed by PICs/Raveshaw, how will either team win because they cannot reach the AGT/OB or the power plant? I know it's a rare scenario but it can happen. E.g. Glacier, Hourglass, Coast_Flying, etc. are examples of maps where this scenario can happen.

I'd say if the enemy's team base defense gets destroyed or if there are no base defenses, then they cannot use !tank anymore so it gives base defenses some uses if the power plant gets destroyed, so that they aren't useless buildings if there's no power. (Although the base defenses tend to get destroyed straight after power plant dies anyway)

[nameismud]

2 hours ago, Forithow said:

The only concern I'd have is if for example we are on a base defense map, like Deth_River, and both weapons factory and airstrip are destroyed early game and there are NO vehicles on either team because they get destroyed by PICs/Raveshaw, how will either team win because they cannot reach the AGT/OB or the power plant? I know it's a rare scenario but it can happen. E.g. Glacier, Hourglass, Coast_Flying, etc. are examples of maps where this scenario can happen.

I'd say if the enemy's team base defense gets destroyed or if there are no base defenses, then they cannot use !tank anymore so it gives base defenses some uses if the power plant gets destroyed, so that they aren't useless buildings if there's no power. (Although the base defenses tend to get destroyed straight after power plant dies anyway)

Good point, not looking like they will get removed anyway. But take the under match today we were in. WF got killed after nearly 2 hours, but because of !tank it will last who knows how much longer. Inspector's suggestion of increasing the cost could help. 

[InspectorGadget]

i mean in foris scenario you can always vote to make buildings unrepairable and kill them with raveshaw/pic/gunner. it´s a concern but not the end all be all.

[shaitan]

June 11, 2022 poll - If you want to keep the !TANK(!keeptank) command or remove it for SHELLS(!keepwrecks), use: !keeptank / !keepwrecks
June 11, 2022 poll - If you want to keep the DNA(!keepdna) drops or remove it for !WEPS(!keepweps), use: !keepdna / !keepweps

[Qjmatrix1]

honestly that command should just spawn a reconbike.... thats it

imagine.... the bull shit that would happen if it was a reconbike..... all the complaints..... that its a bs tank... but the game would sadly end faster with those priced heafty like 2200... that way massing them takes time......

 

[nameismud]

I can’t speak for every map but on deth river recons are probably 2nd to a stank rush. The question about dna/drops may need to be reworded as it seems ppl are not even reading it and are just reacting to dna/drops being disabled. 

[BiLLaBoNg]

7 hours ago, shaitan said:

June 11, 2022 poll - If you want to keep the TANK(!tanks) command or remove it for SHELLS(!notanks), use: !tanks / !notanks
June 11, 2022 poll - If you want to keep the DNA(!dna) drops or remove it for !WEPS(!nodna), use: !dna / !nodna

I do appreciate this - I suggest also having server messages to encourage voting as not everyone frequents the forums.

 

On a side note, a lot of people are asking about the DNA and Backpacks... Seems odd to create a poll for something that exists prior but remove the functionality before polling is done for X amount of time. Maybe re-instate the backpack and DNA until voting is back to avoid player confusion?

[Vultima]

Unlikely this is feasible but...maybe all or a combination of these things...

!tank - set cost(2000) and just give you a random vehicle, high risk and reward, at least its somewhat "fun" then...have the cost double if PP is dead.

Only enable it for those scenarios where both buildings have been destroyed and the game is "stuck", like if no buildings destroyed in over an hour...

Or have your tank drops "accumulate", as in, every 10 mins, from the beginning of the map, that team gets one !tank command.  (And perhaps give every individual player a !tank freebie to stop complaints about everyone stealing all the tank drops if there is an imposed limit), means a team can't spam it then, but equally a team might "turtle" until they get enough !tanks, so might delay it even more...

[Tesla]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:27 PM, Forithow said:

I'd say if the enemy's team base defense gets destroyed or if there are no base defenses, then they cannot use !tank anymore so it gives base defenses some uses if the power plant gets destroyed, so that they aren't useless buildings if there's no power.

I like this idea but without it being an obvious feature, I feel like it would screw over nubs who don't know it's a thing. Unfair advantage for the active community. (And relying on people to read is pointless.)

!weapons is a weaker form of !tank, won't need bar/hon.

People often question the lack of drops. Thought removing them pre-poll was odd but it gives reason to encourage voting when they mention it, we can share the message about the poll which is needed. I'll enjoy the lack there of until then.

[shaitan]

It's how I always do it; a few changes at the same time to see what will stick until the next time.

Just like removing the !tank was not polled beforehand in the game. Quickest way to get their attention.

[Forithow]

I would advise making pimp weapons not available from the !weapons menu though, they should just be rare drops that you can find potentially in the field, that long Under_RxD match had way too many people shooting pimp rockets everywhere lol.

Also, pimp proxies make games last WAY longer than anything we complained about here, especially since you can buy them so easily and negate any rushes regardless of how big it is, so forget !tank, ban !pimpproxy :v

[InspectorGadget]

totally agree. pimp weapons should not be allowed to buy at all. and i´m absolutely against brining !weps back in general, i think it´s worse for the game than !tank in the form we had it until recently. not sure if i like shaitans general approach of just randomly doing stuff here :/. server was running fine in my opinion, the debate about !tank was warranted, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel. !weps just makes the super high skilled players even stronger, i think they´re already too strong as is.

[Tesla]

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, InspectorGadget said:

totally agree. pimp weapons should not be allowed to buy at all. and i´m absolutely against brining !weps back in general, i think it´s worse for the game than !tank in the form we had it until recently..... the debate about !tank was warranted, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel.....

This, the issue is about !tanks causing stale games, !weapons would just be a different form of that.

Personally; I'm not a fan of the randomness and unbalance that RxD/Pimp weapons brings, but I can tolerate it if people enjoy it. !tank just ruins it for me (and others as well). Heck, people with RxD weapons can be killed off a lot easier than a building lol. Same thing with DNA (which sometimes is fun to me) but again, it is minor to !tank/!weapons. Which tank, is the issue that this topic is about, not the other game settngs.

 

As for "other things cause stale games too", this isn't a negative and a negative is a positive... Just an excuse to let an issue stay an issue. !tank games are causing stale games because people have a harder time doing anything, are broke, or the whole point of blowing air/wf becomes useless because other team is rich enough to fight back. And on the side; !weapons would be this exact issue causing Ref to be way to powerful of a building.

16 minutes ago, InspectorGadget said:

 !weps just makes the super high skilled players even stronger, i think they´re already too strong as is.

[nameismud]

As much as I love pimp proxies/weapons, I agree they should be limited. An occasional 5 hour under/field is fun but being stuck in that map every time it hits in the rotation is no good. RXD maps should just be removed in general due to there poor optimization, and the fact even the vanilla maps tend to take awhile.

[shaitan]

2 hours ago, InspectorGadget said:

totally agree. pimp weapons should not be allowed to buy at all. and i´m absolutely against brining !weps back in general, i think it´s worse for the game than !tank in the form we had it until recently. not sure if i like shaitans general approach of just randomly doing stuff here :/. server was running fine in my opinion, the debate about !tank was warranted, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel. !weps just makes the super high skilled players even stronger, i think they´re already too strong as is.

This happens every year, every time the playerbase changes from one type to another. People gripe about this or that, they do forum posts/polls(this time may even be indicative of what the base wants), and so we get something set that most will want to stay with for awhile(this time has been awhile since any real changes were made(February for Gobi, and then August, prior)). You guys act like this is brand new; in one month it'll be 10 years of swapping shit about in Rencorner.

[InspectorGadget]

yeah but map rotation is something different to me than commands like !tank !weps or the dna thing. mixing up maps every once in a while is a good thing imo, commands are something different

[shaitan]

Those werent just map rotations. 3-4/2-3 times per year things change here...mod wise.

[Forithow]

1 hour ago, InspectorGadget said:

yeah but map rotation is something different to me than commands like !tank !weps or the dna thing. mixing up maps every once in a while is a good thing imo, commands are something different

Yeah, things change over time, like Shai said. I remember before this, we had shells, backpack and weps, then before that, we had no dna and weapons and tank, and so on, so we'd probably be like "okay let's change this" next year I bet. It is nice though, keeps things not as stale having some minor changes here and there.

[Itai795]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:02 AM, Forithow said:

Yeah, things change over time, like Shai said. I remember before this, we had shells, backpack and weps, then before that, we had no dna and weapons and tank, and so on, so we'd probably be like "okay let's change this" next year I bet. It is nice though, keeps things not as stale having some minor changes here and there.

yep. Having some changes once in a while is good and keeps things interesting. This is not about try and error to reach the optimal Renegade experience, it doesn't exist (at least not on long time constants).

[shaitan]

9 for keeping !tank / 21 for keeping wrecks

29 for keeping DNA / 12 for keeping !weps

DNA will get turned back on, !weps will be removed. The !tanks will stay the way they are right now. Enjoy your last day of buying weps, I'll change that tonight.

 

[InspectorGadget]

ok maybe don´t ban shai anymore. still ban under field and april though