Why are rules selectively enforced?

[JonRambo]

Had another instance of Get_Rekt_b8 ruined by base-to-base that mods refuse to enforce. If rules aren't going to be enforced, get rid of the pointless ones like outlawing light-rails while allowing art-rails.

[Vultima]

Need a bit of context

Nvm found the logs C&C_Get_Rekt_b8.mix was the map, never seen the map so no idea, different maps do often have different rules though might just need figuring out, but with Manny as the primary renegade admin, it'll be his call in the interim

Although +1 for the rav/pic/anything combo, I wanna see it back too

[iTaLy]

I'm also +1 on the light rav coming back. 

This needs to be a debate

[JonRambo]

48 minutes ago, Vultima said:

Need a bit of context

Nvm found the logs C&C_Get_Rekt_b8.mix was the map, never seen the map so no idea, different maps do often have different rules

Simple question: Is shooting enemy buildings from behind your WF or refinery b2b?

[Manuel857]

Both bases are literally couple feet apart. You can't enforce b2b on a map like that, lol. And tbh that map shouldn't be in the rotation. Its a map for funwars maybe.

[Forithow]

yeah, you can't enforce b2b on that map, it has to be allowed lol, I think it's the only map that b2b is allowed (except maybe Complex iirc?)

[Manuel857]

[14:38:44] <&RCAOW> Host: [BR] No Base to Base attacks, shooting enemy base from your base. (B2B) You must be across the second river outside of your base on Islands. B2B on Complex is allowed.

 

Just need to add get rekt ^

[JonRambo]

Idk how you guys can claim b2b isn't enforceable. Just !atm me and I'll enforce it as the rules are written. I'll assume no other rules apply given your statements.

[crushu06]

Moral of the story lets vote on allow med pic and light rav again because it effects nobodys gameplay when literally at the start of the map on islands a rail gun spawned at the bottom of the tunnel of islands. Not in the middle where its even. Right at the bottom entrance of tunnel instant rail gun. So if we allow instant advantages and snipers why cant normal skilled gameplay be allowed

[Vultima]

Are you talking about this strange map?

Are you trying to say you have to go PAST the fence else its B2B, or are you saying there is another way to circumvent the fence/shoot over it? (It seems after time the fence fully opens up which is pretty cool).

Cos I don't see how you could progress through this map if it required your not allowed to shoot buildings unless you go PAST the fence, it's borderline un-moderatable too, it'd be chaos, and the odd shot is going to happen regardless even by accident.
However if there is a way to circumvent the fence, such as perhaps bending MRLS rockets OVER it(not around it), I would say that isn't allowed.
 

[JonRambo]

I don't understand why it's impossible to not shoot buildings without crossing the fence. People can aim their reticle and choose their position. I just want consistent rules instead of random map choices, and people are clearly breaking rules without repercussion.

[Vultima]

It's not impossible, I am saying I believe it would be hard to moderate and more importantly, I think it would suck the element out of the map which are clearly meant to be used, does it not almost seem the entire point of the map to have no holds barred slug fest?
The advantage, ability and opportunity to b2b is equal to each team here, whereas on Islands it is not possible for Nod as much as it is for GDI.
For example islands, over the wall b2b from utter safety with characters, possible for GDI, not possible for Nod, one of the reason the b2b rules make sense to begin with is to prevent "untouchable" players hitting buildings from a source it is borderline impossible to prevent, it doesn't facilitate a competitive experience, the same goes for invisi-hugging, it doesn't facilitate a competitive experience to the players on the receiving end.

It's pretty easy on islands even in a dense populated server to know if someone is b2bing, in the utter chaos of a 20v20 or even a 10v10 on that little fence entrance on this map, I don't see it being possible, all the shots/shells are heading in the same direction in pretty much the same trajectory.

I think the ability to enforce rules effectively lies in if the rules are clear and concise, this wouldn't be, it has too many arguable semantics, this is not your typical case of "b2b".

• What counts as PAST the wall, when the turret is past it, when the vehicle is 1/2 of the way past it? I don't feel like I want to deal with silly spats about "blah blah was only a tiny bit past the wall he needs to be at least 1/2 of the way through".
• What about rushes, during a rush where normally its balls to the walls ignore everything hit the buildings, are people really expected to hold back and have lets say 5 mammies going 1 by 1 through a tiny fence.
• "Blah blah hit the building", "it was an accident", will happen far too much, completely unavoidable, whether it be because a vehicle dodges a shell and therefore it hits a building, or people doing it maliciously because they are tech'd to the gills enough to tank the hits and spare the odd shell for the building rather than an opposing tank, or they just ad-hoc launch the odd shell at the building, to the total in-detection of anyone, because they are doing it infrequently, and it's hard to see in the chaos.
  
  
  People aren't breaking the rules without repercussion, there was a moderator in game, you posed the question, he said it was ok for this map, whats wrong with that, part of the job of moderating is to provide rule clarification to what clearly is a non-standard scenario, this is not your typical b2b.
  
  Random map additions you're just going to have to live with are part of parcel of playing on the public server, it's just the way it is.  People generally like to play on a new map now and again it's how new maps are discovered and added to the rotation and it does quite often end up with weird ass maps, which would require weird ass rules if formally added to the rotation.

[Goztow]

The map is currently in the rotation. It was recently added with some other maps pwncall made to test how people feel about them. There will surely be an evaluation if these maps stay in the rotation or not and rules may need to be adapted for these maps as we gain experience with them. 

I set it to next map yesterday (instead of under) because there were a lot of players online and I wanted to test how it would work out. I was under the impression most players liked the map the way it was except for Jon indeed. It's good you brought it here for discussion Jon, the rule needs to be clarified for this map

[AprilWar]

So idiotic complaining about this. B2B is suspended in many maps in many servers: close combat, Quick Draw and Cracked precisely because it is dumb to think that the map layout was designed to prevent it. This has been happening for years.

Edited August 26, 2023 by AprilWar

[Vultima]

<&RCAOW> Host: [BR] Base to Base (B2B) IS allowed on Complex and on Get_Rekt_b8.

[InspectorGadget]

14 hours ago, Vultima said:

It's not impossible, I am saying I believe it would be hard to moderate and more importantly, I think it would suck the element out of the map which are clearly meant to be used, does it not almost seem the entire point of the map to have no holds barred slug fest?
The advantage, ability and opportunity to b2b is equal to each team here, whereas on Islands it is not possible for Nod as much as it is for GDI.
For example islands, over the wall b2b from utter safety with characters, possible for GDI, not possible for Nod, one of the reason the b2b rules make sense to begin with is to prevent "untouchable" players hitting buildings from a source it is borderline impossible to prevent, it doesn't facilitate a competitive experience, the same goes for invisi-hugging, it doesn't facilitate a competitive experience to the players on the receiving end.

It's pretty easy on islands even in a dense populated server to know if someone is b2bing, in the utter chaos of a 20v20 or even a 10v10 on that little fence entrance on this map, I don't see it being possible, all the shots/shells are heading in the same direction in pretty much the same trajectory.

I think the ability to enforce rules effectively lies in if the rules are clear and concise, this wouldn't be, it has too many arguable semantics, this is not your typical case of "b2b".

• What counts as PAST the wall, when the turret is past it, when the vehicle is 1/2 of the way past it? I don't feel like I want to deal with silly spats about "blah blah was only a tiny bit past the wall he needs to be at least 1/2 of the way through".
• What about rushes, during a rush where normally its balls to the walls ignore everything hit the buildings, are people really expected to hold back and have lets say 5 mammies going 1 by 1 through a tiny fence.
• "Blah blah hit the building", "it was an accident", will happen far too much, completely unavoidable, whether it be because a vehicle dodges a shell and therefore it hits a building, or people doing it maliciously because they are tech'd to the gills enough to tank the hits and spare the odd shell for the building rather than an opposing tank, or they just ad-hoc launch the odd shell at the building, to the total in-detection of anyone, because they are doing it infrequently, and it's hard to see in the chaos.
  
  
  People aren't breaking the rules without repercussion, there was a moderator in game, you posed the question, he said it was ok for this map, whats wrong with that, part of the job of moderating is to provide rule clarification to what clearly is a non-standard scenario, this is not your typical b2b.
  
  Random map additions you're just going to have to live with are part of parcel of playing on the public server, it's just the way it is.  People generally like to play on a new map now and again it's how new maps are discovered and added to the rotation and it does quite often end up with weird ass maps, which would require weird ass rules if formally added to the rotation.

this post is so much better than this topic deserves

[PwnCall]

Hey there I made this map, it was intended to have no B2B rule.  You should be able to shoot enemy buildings from wherever you please IMO.

ultimately it’s up to the server but I think this is common sense here.

[crushu06]

Can med pic and light rav be allowed in your map?