Under "Wall-hop", is it allowed?

[Learonys]

Hey guys,

After finally being able to make an account here, i have a question.

 

A week ago or so, Delusional killed me next to the GDI PP, saying that 1 man wallhops are not allowed. Off course i already knew this, but the only form disallowed wallhops i have heard of is "rubbing it" so u can glitch to the top of it.

However, i did not use this. Instead, i used this method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN632zwkcjs

I tried to explain to him that my method does not use any glitches or exploits. He refused to change his opinion on it, saying that it's a 1 man wallhop and therefore is not allowed.

 

The question now is: Is this sort of wallhop allowed?

[shaitan]

Nope. 

The 2-man wallhop is what is allowed. Bring a team mate, have them boost you up/over.

[Nudle]

Sicarius is Delu!!! It all makes sense now!!

Not allowed btw.

[UltraZuko]

I'ma be honest... I didn't know this wasn't allowed.

[dubstar]

Personally I think "wall hop" should be a map specific rule

I see it as a bit unfair for Nod, GDI can glitch the obelisk (meaning they can hide behind a thin lamp post so the obelisk wont shoot) and get into the power plant & hon.

Pulling off what is shown in the video is a lot harder for Nod because the AGT usually rips through you before you get chance to leap off the lamppost onto the rock + no glitch is actually used to do it, all GDI need to is place 3 or 4 proxy on the lamp post or wall and their base is totally secure from infantry attacks as opposed to Nod who have to waste half of their proxy limit just to cover the glitchable area in their base.

[masscarriers]

There's no way someone would pull this off with AGT online, and then nod could just walk behind bar to reach the same place. Your case is really unique but I believe it's mostly a question of simplifying rules so that mods can intervene if someone jumps a wall by himself, it's not allowed for any walls period.

Either ways I don't foresee a tidal wave of players trying to pull it off even if they just learned about it.

[dubstar]

I understand that disallowing this does make moderators lives a lot easier, afterall they are real people trying to play the game and have to deal with enough trolling & PM's as it is.

 

ok, I have been sitting in the kitchen for a hour (stressin) waiting for my daughter to finish watching minecraft so I can post lol

 

it seems a bit late to edit my post so I will post now before anyone else points a few things out xD

I didn't put much thought into this "all GDI need to is place 3 or 4 proxy on the lamp post or wall and their base is totally secure from infantry attacks as opposed to Nod who have to waste half of their proxy limit just to cover the glitchable area in their base" some of which is not true... sbh harv walk popped into my head :facepalm: which causes GDI to be on constant lookout for sbh + they have to waste half of their mines on the path used.

3 or 4 mines is effective in this area tho

 

 

[UltraZuko]

Mmmm it's one of my favorites if I have to suffer through under. 

SOMEONE, get an apc or go short tun, take the agt shots-- I'ma nuke pp!

Hardly ever works, worth the try, I don't see why it's disallowed. ESP with the ob walking on nod's side.

Most of the time, lag takes me back off the pole and I die to AGT 2nd round rockets.

 

BUT OKAY! GUESS I'm not trying it anymore!

[Learonys]

4 hours ago, dubstar said:

I see it as a bit unfair for Nod, GDI can glitch the obelisk (meaning they can hide behind a thin lamp post so the obelisk wont shoot) and get into the power plant & hon.

Sorry, but how is this glitching if you're out of line of sight? This is exactly why i find it weird that stuff like this is disallowed. 1 man wallhops were never allowed because they involved a glitch. Now i understand some bugs/glitches have been allowed over time as using a PT through walls, but why disallow something that involves no bugs or exploits? I guess it's easier for the mods, but if the person in question can prove he's not abusing something on scene, I don't think he should be kicked for it.

It's the same as saying driving a medium tank at the Nod front in Field to shoot the hand of nod is disallowed because: you're out of line of sight? Sorry if bots use an aimbot that can only shoot at the chest of a player. So if my chest is hidden, he can't shoot me. It's the aimbot's fault, not some glitch or what-so-ever.

It makes me think about the time i was in the same arguement with some other guy who said 2-man Ref walking on Mesa is disallowed because you repaired each other with technicians to surive the AGT for long enough. Why? Because you were 'ref-walking', AKA outsmarting base-defences. But you were not, you outrepaired it.

 

But to clarify: I don't mind this being disallowed. I just find it weird that it is, and want to show my opinion about it. Buuuuut, anyone who says hiding behind a lantern to avoid obby fire is glitching can fight me ^^

Thanks for the clarification!

[dubstar]

ok. I'm not looking for a fight

 

invisi hugging... you're out of sight and outsmarted your opponent. It's a natural reflex to move side to side when faced with enemy yet people go on about it all the time

 

with the lamp post, you go out your way to hide behind a lamp post for god sake lol it is thinner than you and align yourself just right so the obelisk can not see you, same as someone invisi hugging... people know they can not be seen if they move quick enough from side to side behind a wall.

 

:EDIT

Edited January 8, 2016 by dubstar

[Mikey]

Tip: Dont rub it in game or in public. 

Both are disallowed

[DJEYEK]

37 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Tip: Dont rub it in game or in public. 

Both are disallowed

Or more specific, dont do it when we Mods are around, we are encouraged to take Actions on Rule Breakers, especially those who do it on Purpose when they know they arent allowed to do it.

On the *Specific Map Rule* that was stated above, dont make it more complicated plx, we allready have a shit ton of Rules we have to make the Players follow, a specific Map-Only Rule will be a hell of a Rule to enforce for the Mods.

[Learonys]

23 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Tip: Dont rub it in game or in public. 

Both are disallowed

Lol

12 hours ago, dubstar said:

ok. I'm not looking for a fight

 

invisi hugging... you're out of sight and outsmarted your opponent. It's a natural reflex to move side to side when faced with enemy yet people go on about it all the time

 

with the lamp post, you go out your way to hide behind a lamp post for god sake lol it is thinner than you and align yourself just right so the obelisk can not see you, same as someone invisi hugging... people know they can not be seen if they move quick enough from side to side behind a wall.

 

:EDIT

Sorry, but last time i checked invisihugging left bullet holes in places they were not meant to be, AND was re-creatable in singleplayer. This gives me an idea that lag is not the only factor, and therefore at least some sort of bug or exploit is involved. Especially if not even automated base defences cannot see you, which fire the instant they see you. I might be wrong on the last one though, they might scan the area in some sort of clock cycle like a radar, and you managed to pop in and out of the wall between the two cycles, like renegade X does.

I can see where you're coming from with the 'lantern is too thin' part but video games have never made sense in such kinds of things. Also, the same thing was disallowed in Field where you used rocks and walls that covered your entire body.

 

But, I should stop this. I don't think anyone is in the mood for a big whinefest like this.

[masscarriers]

It's less about what makes "sense" in the video game physics world than having a fair and balanced gameplay.

Invisihug is a glitch indeed but it also gives an unfair advantage to a player, which is why it is enforced. Also, a player can "invis" without using the glitch (be it because of lag or just on the border of doing it) and still be kinda invisible to the player, and he may be kicked for it because the line is so blurry in between for us mods who can't see with the perfect angle most of the time, and that it happens in a fraction of a second.

The thin lamp post doesn't make sense in a strictly physical sense but it's not a glitch in the game world, and even though it kinda favors GDI (you can't pull that off with AGT), it's also linked to the natural way Ob works. Against vehicles Ob is a lot stronger than AGT, it's weakness lies in it's charging time before. All this then becomes a discussion about GDI/NOD balance rather than glitching and fairness, so we let this go.

We'll never kick a player for using a PT through the wall, but it's still a glitch in the game sense. On the other hand we kick people for B2Bing on islands, which is NOT a glitch abuse but just bad map design.

So as you can see with these examples, server rules are more about having a fair gameplay and less about the glitching definition/physics/"natural" game balance. It also takes into account how "enforceable" these rules are and how thin the line is between "abusing" a move/location and good playing. One could say that simple hugging could be banned, but how the hell would you discriminate a player walking near a wall and hugging?

Now for the Under wall: you're not abusing a glitch like the one on field, true. But it doesn't really matter, because game balance isn't skewed because of this move, it's nearly impossible to pull off with AGT on and arguably useless without AGT. It's just a hassle for us mods regarding the general rule of no 1-man wall-hop, so considering pretty much no one will use this abusively (you probably were the only one catched by Delu and also probably ever will), it doesn't make sense to change a clear, simple ruling because of that ONE spot where it could be pulled off without being a glitch.

Bottom line, unless higher admins thinks otherwise, just don't to it and everyone will be happy.

[shaitan]

I think I am going to cry now...masscarriers gets it.

[ehh]

pretty easy to pull it off tbh

surprising to see it disallowed doe.

[pyr0man1c]

On 07/01/2016 at 4:32 PM, Nudle said:

Sicarius is Delu!!! It all makes sense now!!

Not allowed btw.

Okay slowey joey

On 07/01/2016 at 7:42 PM, masscarriers said:

There's no way someone would pull this off with AGT online, and then nod could just walk behind bar to reach the same place. Your case is really unique but I believe it's mostly a question of simplifying rules so that mods can intervene if someone jumps a wall by himself, it's not allowed for any walls period.

Either ways I don't foresee a tidal wave of players trying to pull it off even if they just learned about it.

Ofc not, and they won't. Also it can be pulled off effectively with the AGT online (though there aren't enough players left in the game who would bother).

On 08/01/2016 at 4:09 PM, masscarriers said:

Bottom line, unless higher admins thinks otherwise, just don't to it and everyone will be happy.

I will never be happy x)

Also, I think we're done with answering your question here. Any other cases?

[Volcom]

Gonna bring it up for discussion if it is done when others are rushing. That has been a tactic forever. Also this was discovered in demo days. It's hard to do for the majority of the time.

[ehh]

seems odd, I used to do it all the time when gdi power died.

no one said anything lol

always fun seeing crush fail doing it too

[Volcom]

well this is different than one man. Because on field when you one man hop you are using a glitch on the wall itself. In under you are jumping off a light post which seems logical to me.

[vlatkozelka]

10 hours ago, Volcom said:

well this is different than one man. Because on field when you one man hop you are using a glitch on the wall itself. In under you are jumping off a light post which seems logical to me.

Would like to add that it's a bitch to pull off , and it kind of fair cause gdi can walk to hon ob and pp on under.

[m0a0n7er]

Vlat is right