Netnutarality

[warlord83]

Well hopefully  the fcc vote gets repealed.  I would hate for us smaller gaming community's to get fkd with having to pay for more bandwidth. What are y'alls thoughts. 

[Joetorp]

As I understand it, whatever regulations Nobama put on are being removed.  I don't know about any extra costs. 

[Camflht]

4 hours ago, warlord83 said:

Well hopefully  the fcc vote gets repealed.  I would hate for us smaller gaming community's to get fkd with having to pay for more bandwidth. What are y'alls thoughts. 

I agree 

[vlatkozelka]

Can anyone please explain to me how this actually works? And the actual reason behind it?

What I understand is, the internet being neutral means the data being sent across lines and servers is also neutral. So people pay for the internet as a service, and not based on what the data is. E.G. : 1GB of Google traffic should cost the same as 1GB of Twitter traffic. Which is how I see as normal.

I don't get how anyone can, besides greedy ISPs and carriers, be with removing such rules. All I understood is ISPs and carriers whining about "I don't want 'His' traffic passing through my lines!" , but that's what ISPs are supposed to do, no? At least before Pai anyway.

It's true some traffic can be huge, for example torrents... but that's what bandwidth limitation exists for. It eliminates the issue where one individual can be "chocking" the internet by limiting his bandwidth. That's why you don't need to filter certain traffic, cause no matter how bad it gets, you're always under that limit you impose (you = ISP)

 

All that being said, how exactly can one explain the reason to remove Net Neutrality rules besides greed? I honestly don't get it. Can anyone please explain?

PS: I'm a software engineer, I understand how the internet works. It's the economical, political side that I don't get.

Thanks.

[ice187dna]

https://www.savetheinternet.com/net-neutrality-what-you-need-know-now

Try that.

[vlatkozelka]

4 hours ago, ice187dna said:

https://www.savetheinternet.com/net-neutrality-what-you-need-know-now

Try that.

I already read that. I know the technical part. I don't understand the reason to take such action. Some people seem to support this, like Joetorp for example.

[shaitan]

Good one to read with facts and proofs linked: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/fcc-net-neutrality-facts-fact-checked/
The ones who wanted NN repealed really only fall into four categories:

1. Truly not knowing about it.
2. Corporate scumbags 
3. and their paid-for Congressmen.
4. Woefully ignorant parrots.

This link is happening right now, FCC is trying to stop a fraud investigation into the public comments section of theirs(fake people, dead people, stolen identities): https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjzjv9/net-neutrality-fraud-ny-attorney-general-investigation?utm_source=mbtwitter

The part about this whole year I find goddamned hilarious is the retards who voted for all of this are now finally starting to feel the results of their idiocy. The small time farmers who voted for this have just felt what de-regulation(like NN repeal) means to them as of yesterday: 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/14/570889309/the-usda-rolled-back-protections-for-small-farmers-now-theyre-suing?sc=tw

I have zero sympathy for them, just like I will have zero sympathy when: 
Their medical is gutted(Affordable Care Act being dismantled) and people start feeling that.
Their internet is screwed with(Net Neutrality) and can't facebook.
Their children's education is less(Betsy Devos in charge). 
Their lands/farmlands/etc polluted(EPA being gutted).
Their taxes skyrocket(4-5 years from now us little people will be taxed out of the ass and recession begins like clockwork due to this Tax Cut).
Government debt is 1.5 trillion higher due to that Tax Cut.
Their "free speech" and science is gutted(look at all the government agencies being silenced on important scientific facts(just another yesterday is the Center for Disease Control being silenced on using certain terms, ex: “fetus”, “transgender”, “diversity”, “science-based”', “vulnerable”, “entitlement”, and “evidence-based”)).

Stopping here because I have to get back to work.

[ehh]

i feel its always best to see both sides, i googled a right wing website for their take on NN for you, cause im so kind

https://www.dailywire.com/news/24004/everything-you-need-know-about-why-net-neutrality-harry-khachatrian

https://www.dailywire.com/news/18613/7-reasons-net-neutrality-idiotic-aaron-bandler

[vlatkozelka]

On 12/15/2017 at 6:37 PM, Joetorp said:

As I understand it, whatever regulations Nobama put on are being removed.  I don't know about any extra costs. 

Well as I understand it. The only reason people like you support the repeal, is because Obama put them (or at least in his era), instead of supporting it for it actually being good.

 

[Joetorp]

12 hours ago, shaitan said:

Good one to read with facts and proofs linked: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/fcc-net-neutrality-facts-fact-checked/
The ones who wanted NN repealed really only fall into four categories:

1. Truly not knowing about it.
2. Corporate scumbags 
3. and their paid-for Congressmen.
4. Woefully ignorant parrots.

This link is happening right now, FCC is trying to stop a fraud investigation into the public comments section of theirs(fake people, dead people, stolen identities): https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjzjv9/net-neutrality-fraud-ny-attorney-general-investigation?utm_source=mbtwitter

The part about this whole year I find goddamned hilarious is the retards who voted for all of this are now finally starting to feel the results of their idiocy. The small time farmers who voted for this have just felt what de-regulation(like NN repeal) means to them as of yesterday: 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/14/570889309/the-usda-rolled-back-protections-for-small-farmers-now-theyre-suing?sc=tw

I have zero sympathy for them, just like I will have zero sympathy when: 
Their medical is gutted(Affordable Care Act being dismantled) and people start feeling that.
Their internet is screwed with(Net Neutrality) and can't facebook.
Their children's education is less(Betsy Devos in charge). 
Their lands/farmlands/etc polluted(EPA being gutted).
Their taxes skyrocket(4-5 years from now us little people will be taxed out of the ass and recession begins like clockwork due to this Tax Cut).
Government debt is 1.5 trillion higher due to that Tax Cut.
Their "free speech" and science is gutted(look at all the government agencies being silenced on important scientific facts(just another yesterday is the Center for Disease Control being silenced on using certain terms, ex: “fetus”, “transgender”, “diversity”, “science-based”', “vulnerable”, “entitlement”, and “evidence-based”)).

Stopping here because I have to get back to work.

Just read what you wrote... all left wing Progressive bullshit.  All your views reflect problems brought about by the left, the people that brought us Political Correct speech.

FOR INSTANCE... Obamacare (The Affordable Care Act), for the 1st time in our history, people were made to buy a product or pay a fine.  Now the repeal has your side saying 18 million will lose health insurance... You didn't happen to notice that when obamacare was enacted, how many people lost their coverage that they were happy with (8 million in New Jersey alone), at least 18 million lost their coverage in the US when the Affordable Care Act was enacted. And, how affordable was Obamacare? Not very!  The justification for it was to cover 18 million who didn't have insurance at the start, well we didn't do so well in getting them covered, cuz most young people paid the fine rather than buy coverage.  It was so expensive that the gov't subsidized you to buy it, and the insurance companies to sell it.  Even Congress got a 75% subsidy,  What did they need it for?  Surely at $187,000/yr they could afford it. 

The internet did just fine since it's inception, there wasn't any reason for Obama to regulate it.  Except to kill off competition.  If Crooked Hillary got to be President, you would have seen the real reason for the regulations. 

Do you think the education system that is run and populated by Liberals and Progressives has been doing a good job?  They don't even teach US History, it is mostly pop culture of our history of how bad and unfair our country has been to the poor and minorities.  It is a sad state of our education system, when college students don't know who the Founding Fathers were and what they had to go through to get this country established.  We are mired in racial division and class warfare.  We are removing statues of prominent people who had an impact on our country

Do you think it is right to deny a property owner his right to do what he wants on his property?

Shai, you are drinking the dem kool-aid,  the republicans didn't raise taxes during Nobam's time, it was over-regulation, The Affordable Care Act. the increase in people on food stamps, welfare.  You get the idea, So you aren't interested in an increase in pay due to the tax cut...I presume.

You shouldn't mention the increase in the debt.  As I recall the debt was $8trillion when Nobama got elected and $19 trillion when he left.  He never achieved 2% growth in 8 years.  

And you think free speech and science is gutted by the republican?  Nice try, over 90% (I bet 95+%) of the professors in college are Liberals and Progressives.  Political Correctness didn't come from the workplace, It came from academia.  Where are the Safe Spaces? Colleges and Universities...Where does free speech get censured? Colleges and Universities...

I can go on and on but I need to sleep.

[shaitan]

Obamas debt and the recession stemmed from 9/11 and Bush's wars, fact.
This "tax cut" is going to add 1.5 trillion extra in debt, fact. Have you seen Mnuchins tax cut release? Lmao his "100 workers working 24/7 on this" released a one-page memo with magical unicorns fixing everything.
This "tax cut" is exactly what the rich did to mostly cause the stock market crash of the 1929 Great Depression(transferring this much money from the workers to the rich), fact.

I guess all of these instances of abusing Net Neutrality are fake news, huh?:
http://news.cnet.com/Telco-agrees-to-stop-blocking-VoIP-calls/2100-7352_3-5598633.html
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/eff-tests-agree-ap-comcast-forging-packets-to-interfere
http://netneutrality.koumbit.org/en/node/5
http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/08/04/TelusCensor/
http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/10/04/05/phone-company-helps-make-case-net-neutrality
http://www.wired.com/2011/01/metropcs-net-neutrality-challenge/
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/08/update-paxfire-and-search-redirection
http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/11/12/15/top-10-ways-carriers-tried-screw-us-2011
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=08b9a3f5-b753-4ecb-b6eb-5ca8d1f89358
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-tech/post/fcc-fines-verizon-125m-for-blocking-tethering-apps/2012/07/31/gJQAXjRLNX_blog.html
http://www.freepress.net/press-release/99480/att-blocking-iphones-facetime-app-would-harm-consumers-and-break-net-neutrality
http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/2013/09/18/verizons-plan-break-internet

Here's a big one that Facebook has already tried, India shut this shit down and made Net Neutrality concrete in their country:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/12/facebook-free-basics-india-zuckerberg

You can look into this stuff on your own or sit there and be ignorant, I don't care. It's finally starting to effect the morons who believed every lie they were told, starting with those farmers who are going to start losing their farms.

*edit* Forgot to add some more stuff

One example of Comcast changing their words/meaning after the April Net Neutrality from Pai. Compare these current site and 1 day after Pai's bullshit:

http://corporate.comcast.com/openinternet/open-net-neutrality
-versus then-
https://web.archive.org/web/20170426164719/http://corporate.comcast.com/openinternet/open-net-neutrality

Read the ISP's twitters as well, that is some Trump level propaganda there nowadays.

Edited December 17, 2017 by shaitan
*edit* Forgot to add some more stuff

[Joetorp]

Since no one replied to your post, I guess I will.  Nobamas recession was not going back to 2001.  It was on Bush's watch in his 2nd term when Lehman Brothers collapsed and took a bunch of other Wall Street firms with it.

Obviously you didn't even read what you posted.  The post that you cited of the Mnunchin tax cut release said nothing about a 1.5 trillion increase in debt, cuz, the economy has to grow only 1% over the next 10 years to nullify the expense.  Since Nobama didn't achieve 2% growth  over 8 years in office, and Trumph has already had 3 quarters of over 3% growth in the GDP, in his 1st year, It is reasonable to predict at least 3%+ over his term in office.

The tax cut you cited that caused the stock market crash is inaccurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Great_Depression  You are drinking the Marxist (Democrat) Kool-aid about class warfare.  Tell me how a person making a lot of money and is part of the 1% rich getting a tax cut affects your life.  I want to know... Since you are probably part of the population that doesn't have to file, why shouldn't people that pay for the rest of us get some consideration with tax relief?  You obviously don't like corporations.  Yet most of the population work for one.  This attitude that the left has towards corporations is nonsense, without them, there wouldn't be any innovations nor products and food you buy every day.

http://news.cnet.com/Telco-agrees-to-stop-blocking-VoIP-calls/2100-7352_3-5598633.html    That happened in 2004 by 1 isp who was fined for it after a complaint from Vonage was filed with the FCC

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/eff-tests-agree-ap-comcast-forging-packets-to-interfere  Another instance of that has nothing to do with the topic.

Since I don't have time to go through all the links you posted, find an anti net neutrality argument here

https://www.bing.com/search?q=arguments+against+net+neutrality&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSBR

Nobama has imposed a staggering 20642 new regulations during his time in office.  http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/23/20642-new-regulations-added-in-the-obama-presidency/

He is the only president that couldn't work out of a recession in their 1st term.  To me, when he said he wanted to fundamentally change America, he meant he wanted to get rid of the Capitalistic system and make it into a Socialist county.  I am very happy we have a businessman in office who understands Capitalism.  The result so far are encouraging. 

 

[shaitan]

The CBO already scored the tax cut, and the came out with that amount. I pasted to you that jackass's official release(with the tooth fairy magically fixing the debt this current tax cut will up another 1.5 Trillion). Dodge more why don't you lol, CBO score itself: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/reconciliationrecommendationssfc.pdf

What is funny that wiki link you posted I've already read, and it clearly shows who caused what. Modern day republicans were in charge and fucked everything up. READ YOUR OWN WIKI LINK.

12 hours ago, Joetorp said:

http://news.cnet.com/Telco-agrees-to-stop-blocking-VoIP-calls/2100-7352_3-5598633.html    That happened in 2004 by 1 isp who was fined for it after a complaint from Vonage was filed with the FCC

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/eff-tests-agree-ap-comcast-forging-packets-to-interfere  Another instance of that has nothing to do with the topic.

Since I don't have time to go through all the links you posted, find an anti net

You didn't even read those links, lol.

First link: If you had used that ISP during that timeframe to use Vonage they'd of blocked you. Do you even know what you use VoIP for currently? It's Teamspeak. To you that shit is ok? 

Second link: Comcast effectively blocked their users from using Torrents, just like China censors their people from websites. How's that not censorship? The thing republicans detest so much: "mah freeeee speech". They own the lines, they don't own the content. Even that is debatable, they ripped all of us off with 400 billion worth of fiber lines we never received.

**Speaking of crazy republicans...most of them use the exact same parroted replies to NN. That is freaking hilarious. Another funny thing is they hate Socialism and Liberals so badly...the NFL and it's draft picks is Socialism. The US military is based on Socialism. Let that sink in. 

***Speaking of the military, I read the other day they've misappropriated 21 Trillion dollars since 1998. Even if it were only half of that amount it's ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is they've removed all of the proof from the sites after the initial authors posted...but said authors copied it first. Lol Trumps EPA/CDC/<insert all other propaganda'd government websites>.

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/msu-scholars-find-21-trillion-in-unauthorized-government-spending-defense-department-to-conduct/

https://solari.com/blog/dod-and-hud-missing-money-supporting-documentation/

[warlord83]

I'm just here for the popcorn

[vlatkozelka]

Like I said, no one supports the repeal for it actually being good, but only because "Obama was bad, repeal Obama's rules"

You proved this multiple times Joe

I don't care one bit about the political side of this (I'm not even Amercian lol). I'm talking from a purely technical perspective, as a person who studied how the internet works. It wasn't designed to be "bundled" nor chocked, it was designed neutral. If carriers like Verison want to whine about certain websites hogging traffic, they can apply bandwidth limit. Pai and his FCC have ZERO valid reasons to repeal, besides it being Obama's rule. 

Oh and about "The internet was doing fine before Obama". Well because the abuses didn't exist before. It's like abusing a bug in renegade: the bug is there since the game was made, but only when it gets abused do we make proper rules, and you don't see people saying "But it was just fine before the rule"... this is exactly the case of net neutrality. Only recently we started seeing "bundles" and ISP's blocking off certain websites, that's why the rules only came forth in 2015. Hell I want these rules in Lebanon, we already have Internet that can only carry "What's App" data lol.

How you see the repeal as a "way to help competition" is beyond me. How ISPs and carriers being able to control who sees what "helps competition" I also don't understand.

It's just sad to see people like you get so into political conflict that they forget the reality of things.

[vlatkozelka]

Forgot to ask : wtf does Obama care have to do with Net Neutrality? Your hate for one party just makes it justifiable for the other to fuck up human rights?

[Joetorp]

44 minutes ago, vlatkozelka said:

Forgot to ask : wtf does Obama care have to do with Net Neutrality? Your hate for one party just makes it justifiable for the other to fuck up human rights?

Hey vlat, I DIDN"T BRING IT UP!!! Shai did!

[shaitan]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:37 AM, Joetorp said:

As I understand it, whatever regulations Nobama put on are being removed.  I don't know about any extra costs. 

*coughs*

[Camflht]

Well when someone's wrong you have several choices (correct) them or (ignore) them. Joe correct them

2 hours ago, Joetorp said:

Hey vlat, I DIDN"T BRING IT UP!!! Shai did!

 

[Manuel857]

TRUMP 2016

[mdogg1108]

56 minutes ago, Manuel857 said:

TRUMP 2016

/{Os}Manuel857 STFU

[Joetorp]

5 hours ago, shaitan said:

As I understand it, whatever regulations Nobama put on are being removed.  I don't know about any extra costs. 

I said that with regard to this topic, Shai, you brought in all the other shit!  Oh, btw Shai...choke!

[shaitan]

Double-speak it all you want, here I'll highlight it again.

8 hours ago, Joetorp said:

whatever regulations Nobama put on are being removed.

15 hours ago, vlatkozelka said:

wtf does Obama care have to do with Net Neutrality

ObamaCare(Affordable Care Act is the real name, Republicans just tried to slander Obama...may have backfired for them) IS in fact a "regulation" they're trying to remove. Technically, Vlat is 100% correct at who brought it up. *pewpew*

[Camflht]

 And how in what way is it affordable?

29 minutes ago, shaitan said:

Double-speak it all you want, here I'll highlight it again.

ObamaCare(Affordable Care Act is the real name, Republicans just tried to slander Obama...may have backfired for them) IS in fact a "regulation" they're trying to remove. Technically, Vlat is 100% correct at who brought it up. *pewpew*

 

[Joetorp]

5 minutes ago, Camflht said:

 And how in what way is it affordable?

It isnn't, Shai is blinded by his politics...