My Sworn Testimony, Under Oath (By Real-Life Legal System)

[Broly]

Hello,

(For those who might not know me, I go by the aliases Broly/aienine. Before I delve into this discussion, let me emphasize that I'm approaching this matter with the utmost seriousness; this isn't a joke or a trolling attempt. I kindly ask that you treat it with the same level of seriousness.)

I have a question directed at the mod team and administrators of RenCorner, and if possible, the server owner:

How does one prove, with undeniable, indisputable hard facts, that they're not hacking or using Aimbot/TriggerBot? How can they provide evidence so strong that any arguments against their innocence seem implausible without equally compelling counter-evidence?

I have proffered a potential solution, though I remain uncertain whether counterarguments might undermine its validity.

My Proposed Solution: "What if an individual were to stream unedited footage of the Windows installation process and the subsequent fresh game installation, followed by uninterrupted gameplay leading to a killing spree?"

(Counterarguments I have contemplated):

1.) "There may have been an insufficient or entirely absent presence of certified moderators/administrators during the live stream."

2.) "In the event of video reuploads, the possibility arises that a brief edit or manipulation within the video could insinuate the installation of hacks."

3.) "Reupload concerns emerge, casting doubt upon the viewer's authentication, potentially leading to the oversight of vital details."

4.) "Despite certified authentication, the possibility lingers of a concealed device harboring trojans or hacking malware, capable of remotely installing hacks."

5.) "I just don't believe it unless I see it"

I understand that RenCorner does not give a shit about the proposed "hacker" having to provide evidence. I'm also aware that RC uses logical reason, "burden of proof fallacy," in which its the accusers responsibility to provide the evidence, and I can sit on ass and not also care.

But I do care. You know who you are... I'm speaking to the ones who have grudges, unreasonable hatred, unseasoned returning players that follow anything that makes sense, you people that have secret adversion of past unexplained situations where it seemed as hacks that you were so sure of.

I want to prove to these people that they were wrong, (they are probably reading this, unaware of their hostility and blindness doubt, no open mind to even give me the benefit of the doubt and try and see things from a different angle, yet bewildered by their own unconscious hatred.)

To the mods who say I should move on from anyone's claims and forget about it, ignore:

My reputation is shattered, skill dwindled by discouragement, The game's joy eroded, as each newcomer kindles resentment, No room for friendly bonds, just another log to the flames, Of negative complaints, a relentless cycle that maims. ~Aienine

 

In a legal setting, under the Constitution of the United States and Canada, I would solemnly declare, with my hand raised, that I swear to tell the truth about all my gameplay occurrences.

 

[ehh]

why did volcom do this

[InspectorGadget]

well, fwiw i don´t think you´re cheating.

also, if you aim for healthy bonds, you could be friendly to all the disbelievers and teach them how to get good themselves. in case you succeed with that quest, you´d have some loyal intercessors in the reneworld defending your repute.

 

"hold on, broly is a real one, he´s got them skillz" they can retorte to all the haters and naysayers. "how do i know you ask? it´s because broly has shown me the light himself."

 

the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by InspectorGadget

[iTaLy]

I'd like to know if this post comes in hardback and softback.

Edited September 5, 2023 by iTaLy

[crushu06]

 

[Vultima]

Personally I don't see how anyone can say ya cheat when you got that streaming setup lol, nothing will work short of hiring a private jet, having a rene-tour around the world, playing at everyones PC xD

[BiLLaBoNg]

when reneagde heckler snerip meets ChatGPT

[AprilWar]

Innocent until proven guilty (emphasis on proven), I agree.

At the same time, though, when really good players (which excludes 99% of players here) refuse to provide meaningful, kick-ass, unedited footage of their gameplay in 2023, it should be looked at with suspicion and should be tantamount to "hiding" something. Thus, it should trigger appropriate action.

Not everything is just waiting to prove there's a fault. That's why real sports have routine anti-doping tests to say you can play clean and shit like that.

I gotta say that mr. server owner here jumped into my machine once via TeamsView years ago and watched everything I did, how I played, my processes and everything, and to this day, he still calls me a cheater. So, to Vultima's point, perhaps not even a world tour would suffice.

[nameismud]

26 minutes ago, AprilWar said:

Innocent until proven guilty (emphasis on proven), I agree.

At the same time, though, when really good players (which excludes 99% of players here) refuse to provide meaningful, kick-ass, unedited footage of their gameplay in 2023, it should be looked at with suspicion and should be tantamount to "hiding" something. Thus, it should trigger appropriate action.

Not everything is just waiting to prove there's a fault. That's why real sports have routine anti-doping tests to say you can play clean and shit like that.

I gotta say that mr. server owner here jumped into my machine once via TeamsView years ago and watched everything I did, how I played, my processes and everything, and to this day, he still calls me a cheater. So, to Vultima's point, perhaps not even a world tour would suffice.

Trigger bot is difficult to detect. It’s not a blood/urine test with clear tools. I can’t imagine it’d be difficult to manipulate a stream by toggling off/on. I don’t think you cheat, but definitely wouldn’t put it past you.

 

Eric you definitely cheating tho

[Goonhaven]

I have a few ideas. 1) Ren admins / senior mods should install TB, stream their gameplay with it, then stream their gameplay without it, find the minute differences in gameplay (keep these secret of course), and look for these minutiae in suspect videos. 2) Watch running processes while someone snipes and streams. 3) A script that detects TB. 4) A client-side anti-cheat program. 5) Proactively block TB by disabling the mechanisms by which it works.

[BiLLaBoNg]

7 hours ago, Goonhaven said:

I have a few ideas. 1) mods should install TB

Say less

Edited September 6, 2023 by BiLLaBoNg

[iTaLy]

15 minutes ago, BiLLaBoNg said:

Say less

^ 

[alljustice]

18 hours ago, Broly said:

Hello,

(For those who might not know me, I go by the aliases Broly/aienine. Before I delve into this discussion, let me emphasize that I'm approaching this matter with the utmost seriousness; this isn't a joke or a trolling attempt. I kindly ask that you treat it with the same level of seriousness.)

I have a question directed at the mod team and administrators of RenCorner, and if possible, the server owner:

How does one prove, with undeniable, indisputable hard facts, that they're not hacking or using Aimbot/TriggerBot? How can they provide evidence so strong that any arguments against their innocence seem implausible without equally compelling counter-evidence?

I have proffered a potential solution, though I remain uncertain whether counterarguments might undermine its validity.

My Proposed Solution: "What if an individual were to stream unedited footage of the Windows installation process and the subsequent fresh game installation, followed by uninterrupted gameplay leading to a killing spree?"

(Counterarguments I have contemplated):

1.) "There may have been an insufficient or entirely absent presence of certified moderators/administrators during the live stream."

2.) "In the event of video reuploads, the possibility arises that a brief edit or manipulation within the video could insinuate the installation of hacks."

3.) "Reupload concerns emerge, casting doubt upon the viewer's authentication, potentially leading to the oversight of vital details."

4.) "Despite certified authentication, the possibility lingers of a concealed device harboring trojans or hacking malware, capable of remotely installing hacks."

5.) "I just don't believe it unless I see it"

I understand that RenCorner does not give a shit about the proposed "hacker" having to provide evidence. I'm also aware that RC uses logical reason, "burden of proof fallacy," in which its the accusers responsibility to provide the evidence, and I can sit on ass and not also care.

But I do care. You know who you are... I'm speaking to the ones who have grudges, unreasonable hatred, unseasoned returning players that follow anything that makes sense, you people that have secret adversion of past unexplained situations where it seemed as hacks that you were so sure of.

I want to prove to these people that they were wrong, (they are probably reading this, unaware of their hostility and blindness doubt, no open mind to even give me the benefit of the doubt and try and see things from a different angle, yet bewildered by their own unconscious hatred.)

To the mods who say I should move on from anyone's claims and forget about it, ignore:

My reputation is shattered, skill dwindled by discouragement, The game's joy eroded, as each newcomer kindles resentment, No room for friendly bonds, just another log to the flames, Of negative complaints, a relentless cycle that maims. ~Aienine

 

In a legal setting, under the Constitution of the United States and Canada, I would solemnly declare, with my hand raised, that I swear to tell the truth about all my gameplay occurrences.

 

As someone InspectorGadget said - I would simply whisper them back or start a conversation with them. Ask questions why do they think you're cheating, how, etc. Then offer up our responses & twitch/stream channel for them to watch & view. 

 

As one of those "new" players - I'll be real - sometimes when you're getting sniped w/a headshot by the same person continuously it does feel like they are possibly cheating in some way. I know I have whispered a couple people only for us to have a chat, and by the end of it I am usually less sus of said person. 

 

Dialogue w/the accuser & accused is the best bet. Friendly, educational, handholding dialogue because the accuser is probably a new player like myself & may not understand how another person can get like 20x headshots in a row off their team & them. 

[Vultima]

Some people fundamentally don't understand that some of these snipers, have literally only sniped, day in day out for years, I believe Broly started literally maining sniping a few years ago, don't think Iv seen the man in a tank the entire time.
Naturally any returning/new player is not going to be able to keep up with them.

[Goonhaven]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:22 PM, BiLLaBoNg said:

Say less

Funny to see two people, one of which is a mod, frequently accused of cheating by newer / lower-skilled players dismissing a potential solution to it all. This is why I don't moderate renegade anymore - no one can take anything of import seriously. Keep wrecking April and Billa Broly :)

[BiLLaBoNg]

4 hours ago, Goonhaven said:

Funny to see two people, one of which is a mod, frequently accused of cheating by newer / lower-skilled players dismissing a potential solution to it all. This is why I don't moderate renegade anymore - no one can take anything of import seriously. Keep wrecking April and Billa Broly :)

1. We can't convince people to show video proof, but you're wanting them to share stream with processes running?

2. We can't fix hon bug, but someone is going to develop a script, client-side program (which can also be a script), and/or mechanism (which can also be a program or script) to prevent hacks in ren?

 

I didn't think your solution was serious, mb

Edited September 7, 2023 by BiLLaBoNg

[Goonhaven]

2 hours ago, BiLLaBoNg said:

1. We can't convince people to show video proof, but you're wanting them to share stream with processes running?

2. We can't fix hon bug, but someone is going to develop a script, client-side program (which can also be a script), and/or mechanism (which can also be a program or script) to prevent hacks in ren?

 

I didn't think your solution was serious, mb

I'll elaborate on my first idea. Renegade Senior Mods and Admins (which does NOT include me, I am a Minecraft Admin only - I have no jurisprudence over Ren), represent the most trustworthy people in the server. Since no one knows what to look for in trigger bot videos from what I gather, it only makes sense to treat it with some scientific methodology. And that is one of the ways to go about it. I suppose I can see where you might think it's a joke, but given I'd made 5 points, why would I be joking? Sometimes the most ridiculous idea is the best; in fact I prefer the nuttier the better - blue sky thinking.

As to your second point, I don't want to talk about it in public but have a look at the mod forum. The hon bug I think was fixed, but there were problems with the latest update if I recall correctly. You're right though, I don't expect anyone to dedicate time to coding for this ancient game, that's why my first point was placed where it was. I've also been made aware of some AI that can detect abnormal human behaviour in videos, pointing to the use of aids like TB.

[InspectorGadget]

there are some mods who did experiment with triggerbot in the past and know what to look for. your idea is alright, it just has been done already.

 

 

[Vultima]

All you're gonna see from running TB is that you can choose to hit nearly every single shot, it's not gonna be educational to mods > reticle goes red, dink, there's nothing outlandish that changes the general playstyle to pick up on.

Not to crap on any of our mods, but I don't think we particularly have any good sniper mods lol, I might be mistaken I think the only people that snipe, are me and Billa and we aren't exactly terrible, but we're not amazing either, I can probably poop on 95% of the players in game easily, with the other 5% basically being the Aprils, Brolys, Redpillar ect...
The point I am trying to make with the above, is you already have to be a good sniper to recognize when someone is doing something funny, and sorry but I just don't see it, I played with and against Broly recently, it was legit, I played with April recently, it was legit.If you give someone who's terrible at sniping, but perhaps a moderator TB, you will probably just increase their bias, because they will only see that level of play be possible with TB, when it's not, its possible.
 

Il say it again, if someone still thinks Broly cheats after watching his stream, you're just sipping on some extreme copium for not being able to keep up, you can literally see every single finger press, every single key being pressed.

[BiLLaBoNg]

18 minutes ago, Vultima said:

All you're gonna see from running TB is that you can choose to hit nearly every single shot, it's not gonna be educational to mods > reticle goes red, dink, there's nothing outlandish that changes the general playstyle to pick up on.

Not to crap on any of our mods, but I don't think we particularly have any good sniper mods lol, I might be mistaken I think the only people that snipe, are me and Billa and we aren't exactly terrible, but we're not amazing either, I can probably poop on 95% of the players in game easily, with the other 5% basically being the Aprils, Brolys, Redpillar ect...
The point I am trying to make with the above, is you already have to be a good sniper to recognize when someone is doing something funny, and sorry but I just don't see it, I played with and against Broly recently, it was legit, I played with April recently, it was legit.If you give someone who's terrible at sniping, but perhaps a moderator TB, you will probably just increase their bias, because they will only see that level of play be possible with TB, when it's not, its possible.
 

Il say it again, if someone still thinks Broly cheats after watching his stream, you're just sipping on some extreme copium for not being able to keep up, you can literally see every single finger press, every single key being pressed.

I can't see his mouth though because he wears a mask (must be COVID in his home), so he might be turning it on and off with his tongue. (Cc @Broly)

[Vultima]

I reckon he is doing a Hans Heiman from chess, anal beads TB trigger

Reference incase nobody got that:

[UksRene]

15 minutes ago, Vultima said:

I reckon he is doing a Hans Heiman from chess, anal beads TB trigger

Reference incase nobody got that:

Haha I was following that story, the guy just made one move and surrendered after that lol 😂 Carlsen the legend

[GetPastMe]

I have been playing regularly for the last several years after a break, before which I sniped quite a bit and was ok with  (30-40) kills in a normal game, more once in a while).  Now I concentrate mostly on infiltration and building kills. but I remember when I started playing again as Rueggy, then GetPastMe, I was convinced the snipers (April, Broly, Woj, Reet, etc.) were cheating. I tried to snipe against them and got slaughtered.

I blasted them all the time and the one I really remember scolding me was Broly.  His comment at that time was I was wrong to assume nobody was better than me, and that he was good because he practiced and was GOOD at it.  That made me think a lot about it, and I have eventually come to think he isn't cheating.

But there are a few shots that still make me wonder.  How is it possible when I am coming out of a building where the sniper is unable to see into the building, to consistently get a HS before I am even halfway out the door? There is absolutely no way to "aim" at what you could not possibly see, so my assumption has always been its a "bullshit" shot and indicative of cheating.  I don't know, but those kind of shots seem suspicious.

As far as games on the server go, I have gotten used to that fact that we have certain snipers who will take you down if you are anywhere in their line of site.  The problem games are when the premium snipers are all on one team.  Then there really is no ground game for the other team, which skews the whole game.  Most times the sniper team wins (not always but generally).  I would like to see some balancing of the premium snipers per team.  That would have to done via modding, but it would be nice to have that balance. And sometimes they do it themselves, to their credit.  But at least when your team has some counter-snipe ability there is some sense of fairness.

Crazy Idea: Collect a percentage of donations, or add a special donation that can be used to create a "sterile" configuration.  A player remotes into it, demonstrates proficiency, and  becomes a "certified" master sniper complete with Ren Badge! :).  Then we just all accept that player's skill.

In any case, I find it helps to donate to the snipers. It helps them stay on your team, and once in a while I think they feel bad (except Woj107) and miss a shot here and there!

SolidGold (chicks dig me!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by GetPastMe

[ExEric3]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:33 AM, Goonhaven said:

I have a few ideas. 1) Ren admins / senior mods should install TB, stream their gameplay with it, then stream their gameplay without it, find the minute differences in gameplay (keep these secret of course), and look for these minutiae in suspect videos. 2) Watch running processes while someone snipes and streams. 3) A script that detects TB. 4) A client-side anti-cheat program. 5) Proactively block TB by disabling the mechanisms by which it works.

You are admin and u dont know what is RC using or have?. It doesnt matter if you moved to MC part. You was part of Ren before.

1) looks like solved even lower mods tested it. 2) i talked with jonwil about this - sensitive data (also asked implement getting serials from disk partition like RG did again same result sensitive data). Also from MPF was requested MAC addresses again sensitive data. All these mentioned parts can be bypassed today. But TT team still can make and implement some UID system like Steam have. U need something unique per player since serials are broken from TT installer and even moderators using shared serials. 3) already exist, RC/MPF/IA have it. 4) was there something in history? RG replaced TT anticheat and still u can use bigheads/rof hack. 5) change reticle colors and u solved it. also u can capture keyboard shortcuts on server side it just need RC dev and playing with server packages.

That leaked TB on this forum was provided to jonwil to block it? Shaitan or Manuel will know more since they deleted that post I think. Renforums which died 4 years ago had TT changelogs topics which had lines about blocked all known publicly released hacks.

[Goonhaven]

15 hours ago, ExEric3 said:

You are admin and u dont know what is RC using or have?. It doesnt matter if you moved to MC part. You was part of Ren before.

1) looks like solved even lower mods tested it. 2) i talked with jonwil about this - sensitive data (also asked implement getting serials from disk partition like RG did again same result sensitive data). Also from MPF was requested MAC addresses again sensitive data. All these mentioned parts can be bypassed today. But TT team still can make and implement some UID system like Steam have. U need something unique per player since serials are broken from TT installer and even moderators using shared serials. 3) already exist, RC/MPF/IA have it. 4) was there something in history? RG replaced TT anticheat and still u can use bigheads/rof hack. 5) change reticle colors and u solved it. also u can capture keyboard shortcuts on server side it just need RC dev and playing with server packages.

That leaked TB on this forum was provided to jonwil to block it? Shaitan or Manuel will know more since they deleted that post I think. Renforums which died 4 years ago had TT changelogs topics which had lines about blocked all known publicly released hacks.

The only time I moderated Renegade was on St0rm, about 10 years ago when RGH and RoF were still the main ones; never for Rencorner, except on occasion as temp mod. That being said, regarding (3), you are correct and I'm aware how it's been used...