Shorty|S2 reveal cheat

[shaitan]

12 hours ago, BigWrench said:

The hitbox thing should no longer work since 4.0 beta it worked in all versions up to 3.4.4. Does this still work?

If they're making a topic about it, I'd say it still works.

[Fabregas4]

I guess everyone has their own opinion about this, but for me I find it bad form to use. At a certain point it defeats the purpose of sbh, and from what ive seen since this post has been started, more and more people are abusing it. Whats fun about getting spotted by an apc miles away? Defeats the purpose of spys too. GDI has its advantages just like NOD, leaving them at an equilibrium, but with the abuse of this id say advantage is with GDI now; nod cant do anything about gdi's higher hp and firepower, but now gdi can spot stealth units from a mile away.

Sure if someone notices their retina turn off randomly and think it might be an sbh, thats cool. But someone actively waiting at the back of gdi ref on complex and abusing this glitch for 2-3 hours is just wrong.

Imagine renegade where every player knows how to do this, sbh will be completely obsolete. Its not the same as 1 man wall hops because it can be avoided by simply not doing it, and since both teams can do it, I find that comparison irrelevant. Theres no glitch nod can use which makes a gdi unit completely useless....

Just how invising was banned cuz it makes the game impossible and ruins the fun and point of the game, id say this is the same concept.

 

[Mikey]

Theres not many people who even know how to do this, I don't see how it's even a problem.

How many of you can say this has happened to you in game with you knowing about it? I doubt many.

[Joetorp]

The only people that would be pissed off are the players that play sbh or use stanks consistantly, after 14 years, we have bitched about EVERY glitch and discussed it ad nausem.  Get over it, and play the game.  Statistically speaking, Nod still has an edge on most maps.

[u00fzTar]

Imho it should be allowed, its some kind of skill + since sbhs can pickup weapons, NOD has another advantage more.

So its only fair GDI can use this way to make it a little bit more even.

[Volcom]

You can have your opinions. Our rules clearly state no Glitching. It is not allowed. If there is a case where you can prove someone is doing it warn them, then kick. then temp ban. We tried making exceptions in the past and it didn't work. We will not allow people to abuse glitches. I am pretty disappointed people are trying to justify it. It wasn't meant to be in Renegade so do NOT allow it.

[Guest rackz]

Now thats an reply lol 

[Theboy]

20 hours ago, Volcom said:

You can have your opinions. Our rules clearly state no Glitching. It is not allowed. If there is a case where you can prove someone is doing it warn them, then kick. then temp ban. We tried making exceptions in the past and it didn't work. We will not allow people to abuse glitches. I am pretty disappointed people are trying to justify it. It wasn't meant to be in Renegade so do NOT allow it.

I find it interesting you would say it wasnt intended to be in renegade. How do you know? I will respect this decision absolutely.

I just think your missing several points which have not been dealt with 1 time by anyone opposed to these things:

 

1) it takes an element of skill to pull these things off. Not everyone even knowing how to do this will find and kill the sbh. In the tutorial for example, the person specifically asks him to stand still. Why? Because there would be just about no chance he would get that kill otherwise. Also you dont see this happening often at all. Then what will mods do when it happens by mistake? E.g. I paint a target and then find an sbh is near me using this method. I just have to let him live? Pretend they arent there now?? Thats team hampering if i do that. 

 

2) anyone can learn how to do this.  The people crying about it are lazy. It can be done by anyone (some better than others) as can any other "glitch" in this game. Given this where is the imbalance? 

3) There isnt an advantage for gdi. Spotting a random sbh using this method simply means the sbh was too lazy to utilize any cover. Its their fault for poorly positioning themselves so close to people like the OP in this video. Smart sbhs use things to block a line of sight anyway just as if you were rushing nod base with a infantry unit. If they were too lazy to be smart I doubt they will even do a properly placed nuke anyway and just end up wasting a player slot on nod. 

 

4) This game is 14 years old. Im sure you can all see where this is going. By making this an issue now. Your conservatively 8-12 tears late with your complaint.

5) unenforceable for the reasons stated in part 1. How will you deal with people that do this unintentionally? Should we kick them if they dont pursue the sbh they find on accident for th? How will you differentiate between intentional or unintentional outside of the same hunch logic used by sbh hunters?

 

6) this isnt really a point to this topic but sbh are largely useless. Putting 5 sbh in the gdi base is fun but they would be far more deadly as 5 arties or 5 flamers or 5 ravs/saks, stanks ect. 

7) There isnt anything to justify. Its apart of the game. The thing that needs justification is the banning of these practices for which hasnt been argued at all yet. All Iv seen is whining. 

Like I said I assume this is the final word. Just know none of the above has been dealt with at all. 

[mdogg1108]

On October 16, 2016 at 1:30 AM, Theboy said:

While this is true, its an element of skill not necessarily everyone can do. This is the only reason I'm opposed to rules that prevent people from doing glitches ANYone else can do. I can remember when ref hopping was legal at jelly for example. Sure the first few days, it largely was unopposed and refs died left and right from nukes. But after that everyone just figured out how to do it and you were seeing it as a go to check spot on the refinery and they rarely worked anymore. Even with flaming vehicles, people would just figure it out and it would just be a breakout tactic that makes the game interesting, but largely you would just see apcs attempt to destroy a vehicle and it would just be killed before it could do anything anyway. When one man wall hops were allowed, people just put mines there. ect.

So my point is that anyone can spot sbh's this way, but not everyone is good at it. otherwise it would be happening ALL the time. Now that its out in the open maybe people will pick it up as a skillset and it will become more common. Its just how these things go.

Yeah but I feel like there's a difference between everything you mentioned and the SBH glitch. Throwing a bunch of remotes on an APC isn't necessarily a glitch. Ref hopping in my eyes isn't necessarily a glitch, although I'm sure the creators didn't intend to put it there. The problem with this glitch is your seeing invisible people you're not supposed to see. The game is built so you specifically can't see these people. This glitch ruins the whole dynamic of a SBH. What's the point of using one if everyone knows the glitch? You'll just get spotted a lot easier than before.

 

Instead I would compare this glitch to a tunnel beacon, where neither should be allowed and both can ruin a game.

[Joetorp]

2 hours ago, mdogg1108 said:

Yeah but I feel like there's a difference between everything you mentioned and the SBH glitch. Throwing a bunch of remotes on an APC isn't necessarily a glitch. Ref hopping in my eyes isn't necessarily a glitch, although I'm sure the creators didn't intend to put it there. The problem with this glitch is your seeing invisible people you're not supposed to see. The game is built so you specifically can't see these people. This glitch ruins the whole dynamic of a SBH. What's the point of using one if everyone knows the glitch? You'll just get spotted a lot easier than before.

 

Instead I would compare this glitch to a tunnel beacon, where neither should be allowed and both can ruin a game.

Yet an sbh becomes visible when firing.  I personally think an sbh being able to pick up a dropped weapon is more troubling than someone looking for sbh.  Another thing, would you be allowed to stand in place and fire in a circle to discover an sbh?  Or fire when you run and sweep?  If you want to be an sbh, then deal with the fact there are ways to be discovered.  Thia whole "glitch" shit reminds me of a debate I had with spoony 10 years ago about where you can and can't place c4 on the MCT. 

Zend was banned from Jelly for having an engineer with a timed c4 in his hand and in an apc.  It seems that the players didn't like an apc crashing into their arties and when the apc was destroyed, he placed the c4 on the arty.  Yet it is ok to have a mobius with weapon in hand so when you lose the apc you come out firing.  Over the years, there have been measures to make each side equal with the other. Each side has it's strengths and weaknesses, trying to equalize the game is pure bullshit.

[masscarriers]

This conversation reminds me a lot of the one we had a while back on the "Under wall-hop" to GDI PP from the lamp post.

Until it is fixed or forgotten, here's what I wrote back then:

Quote

It's less about what makes "sense" in the video game physics world than having a fair and balanced gameplay.

Invisihug is a glitch indeed but it also gives an unfair advantage to a player, which is why it is enforced. Also, a player can "invis" without using the glitch (be it because of lag or just on the border of doing it) and still be kinda invisible to the player, and he may be kicked for it because the line is so blurry in between for us mods who can't see with the perfect angle most of the time, and that it happens in a fraction of a second.

The thin lamp post doesn't make sense in a strictly physical sense but it's not a glitch in the game world, and even though it kinda favors GDI (you can't pull that off with AGT), it's also linked to the natural way Ob works. Against vehicles Ob is a lot stronger than AGT, it's weakness lies in it's charging time before. All this then becomes a discussion about GDI/NOD balance rather than glitching and fairness, so we let this go.

We'll never kick a player for using a PT through the wall, but it's still a glitch in the game sense. On the other hand we kick people for B2Bing on islands, which is NOT a glitch abuse but just bad map design.

So as you can see with these examples, server rules are more about having a fair gameplay and less about the glitching definition/physics/"natural" game balance. It also takes into account how "enforceable" these rules are and how thin the line is between "abusing" a move/location and good playing. One could say that simple hugging could be banned, but how the hell would you discriminate a player walking near a wall and hugging?

Now for the Under wall: you're not abusing a glitch like the one on field, true. But it doesn't really matter, because game balance isn't skewed because of this move, it's nearly impossible to pull off with AGT on and arguably useless without AGT. It's just a hassle for us mods regarding the general rule of no 1-man wall-hop, so considering pretty much no one will use this abusively (you probably were the only one catched by Delu and also probably ever will), it doesn't make sense to change a clear, simple ruling because of that ONE spot where it could be pulled off without being a glitch.

Bottom line, unless higher admins thinks otherwise, just don't to it and everyone will be happy.

Joe brings a good point when speaking about players shooting in a circle to find a sbh, because anybody could "scan" using the glitch while firing at the same time just to cover their intentions. Invis is already hard enough to enforce (you need to spectate/fraps from the exact good angle to frame the shot/the kill but in a way you'd be able to argue the sniper couldn't be seen. Imagine frapsing someone who's just running around and trying to prove he's selecting stuff to scan for sbh o.O

Bottom line is the same, just don't do it and everyone will be happy.

[StJohn Gumby]

2 hours ago, Theboy said:

I find it interesting you would say it wasnt intended to be in renegade. How do you know? I will respect this decision absolutely.

I just think your missing several points which have not been dealt with 1 time by anyone opposed to these things:

 

1) it takes an element of skill to pull these things off. Not everyone even knowing how to do this will find and kill the sbh. In the tutorial for example, the person specifically asks him to stand still. Why? Because there would be just about no chance he would get that kill otherwise. Also you dont see this happening often at all. Then what will mods do when it happens by mistake? E.g. I paint a target and then find an sbh is near me using this method. I just have to let him live? Pretend they arent there now?? Thats team hampering if i do that. 

 

2) anyone can learn how to do this.  The people crying about it are lazy. It can be done by anyone (some better than others) as can any other "glitch" in this game. Given this where is the imbalance? 

3) There isnt an advantage for gdi. Spotting a random sbh using this method simply means the sbh was too lazy to utilize any cover. Its their fault for poorly positioning themselves so close to people like the OP in this video. Smart sbhs use things to block a line of sight anyway just as if you were rushing nod base with a infantry unit. If they were too lazy to be smart I doubt they will even do a properly placed nuke anyway and just end up wasting a player slot on nod. 

 

4) This game is 14 years old. Im sure you can all see where this is going. By making this an issue now. Your conservatively 8-12 tears late with your complaint.

5) unenforceable for the reasons stated in part 1. How will you deal with people that do this unintentionally? Should we kick them if they dont pursue the sbh they find on accident for th? How will you differentiate between intentional or unintentional outside of the same hunch logic used by sbh hunters?

 

6) this isnt really a point to this topic but sbh are largely useless. Putting 5 sbh in the gdi base is fun but they would be far more deadly as 5 arties or 5 flamers or 5 ravs/saks, stanks ect. 

7) There isnt anything to justify. Its apart of the game. The thing that needs justification is the banning of these practices for which hasnt been argued at all yet. All Iv seen is whining. 

Like I said I assume this is the final word. Just know none of the above has been dealt with at all. 

[mdogg1108]

SBHs can't pick up weapons.

Yes Joe, you can stand in a circle and fire around to find SBHs, sure. But even that isn't perfect. There's been times where people are shooting all around the refinery on Islands and I still don't get spotted, even if it looks like there's no way they could have missed me. This glitch essentially tells you for sure somebody is there. Not only that, but it works across the map! Remember that video that's in the thread, from field? There's no way somebody is shooting around searching for SBHs at that distance.

I do believe this is an unfair advantage, such as invisihugging. I agree with mass in terms of everyone should just not do it and we can all be happy :D

[Goztow]

Bottom line is, volcom made his call. No glitching means no glitching. 

[StJohn Gumby]

38 minutes ago, Goztow said:

Bottom line is, volcom made his call. No glitching means no glitching. 

That's what I was trying to point out, in a humorous way.

Can't understand why some people are still posting like it's a discussion?

Gumby

[Theboy]

I was just curious if there was any evidence to show it was an unintentional addition to the game. No one has been able to show how a smart sbh who utilizes cover and sneaking techniques like not standing in an obvious sbh spot would be caught. Its clear that something that is apart of the game is just defined as a glitch for a purpose beyond me. But thats OK. Just consider enforcing every other glitch abuse then such as jumping out of a tank with a rail gun and doing double damage to tanks, removing crates that add in op guns or change the physics of guns/tanks and the characters themselves. 

Anyone arguing that this is a glitch that shouldnt be accepted must be for vanillia ren, anything outside of that is illogical. 

But thats all I have to say about it. Just curious if there was a REAL reason behind calling it a glitch. 

[Whitedragon]

This is fixed in the next version of TT.

[Joetorp]

A glitch in this game is something someone bitches about and can persuade people that make the rules it should be against said rules. 

[DJEYEK]

On 18.10.2016 at 9:52 PM, Volcom said:

You can have your opinions. Our rules clearly state no Glitching. It is not allowed. If there is a case where you can prove someone is doing it warn them, then kick. then temp ban. We tried making exceptions in the past and it didn't work. We will not allow people to abuse glitches. I am pretty disappointed people are trying to justify it. It wasn't meant to be in Renegade so do NOT allow it.

Thats a lame Satement tbh, good Luck in moderating this in a fair and transparent way, the amount of Players playing Renegade has dropped to around ~50-60 max, if u pull up shit like this even more will either stop playing like me or switch to the other Server. I dont get why you make it so hard for yourself to keep the last Players active until it bleeds completely out, forcing them on following more *Rules* and maybe accidently removing them for playing the way they played for years will not keep them on the servers. You dont have a tons of new Players coming back once u lost those u wrongfully kicked. Its just my opinion but as Mikey said earlier, play and let play to sum it up.

[Learonys]

11 hours ago, Whitedragon said:

This is fixed in the next version of TT.

The next version being Scripts 5.0, which is Standalone only? Doesn't help us much here (not that help is needed for this mostly non-issue, honestly)

[Guest rackz]

The standalone mods already use scripts 5. Renegade is at 4.x, the next updates will also be a scripts 4.x version and wont go above v5

[ragnaroec]

ok - from now on i will use the pt only from inside a building :D

[ehh]

8 hours ago, DJEYEK said:

Thats a lame Satement tbh, good Luck in moderating this in a fair and transparent way, the amount of Players playing Renegade has dropped to around ~50-60 max, if u pull up shit like this even more will either stop playing like me or switch to the other Server. I dont get why you make it so hard for yourself to keep the last Players active until it bleeds completely out, forcing them on following more *Rules* and maybe accidently removing them for playing the way they played for years will not keep them on the servers. You dont have a tons of new Players coming back once u lost those u wrongfully kicked. Its just my opinion but as Mikey said earlier, play and let play to sum it up.

then go to the other server dj?

 

oh wait

[Theboy]

Lmao! Thats true though, nowhere else to go :D 

 

I too will be carful to use the PT from the inside of the building only and snitch on those who dont!

[mdogg1108]

Yeah because using a PT from outside causes an unfair advantage, and not only does it cause an unfair advantage, it only works for one team, right? Lmao